Status: U Return-Path: Received: from web12707.mail.yahoo.com ([216.136.173.244]) by strange.mail.mindspring.net (Earthlink Mail Service) with SMTP id tslu80.s30.37kbi0u for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:56:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <20011015145600.47490.qmail@web12707.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [152.163.207.179] by web12707.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 07:56:00 PDT Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 07:56:00 -0700 (PDT) From: MPCgram Subject: MPCGram 459/3 please discregard 260 draft (sorry) To: MPCGram@yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ============================================== MPC Gram ============================================== Covering the Entire World of Military Numismatics ----------------------------------------------- Series 002-Number 459 Monday, October 17, 2001 Short Report on the Long Beach Coin Show by Mark Watson On Friday, 5 October 2001, I attended the Long Beach Coin Show. Out of the couple of hundred of dealers attending, I counted around fifteen paper money dealers in attendance along with twenty or so dealers that had a token amount in their cases. Out of those, only one dealer had military items as the main concentration. Without having any overriding goal other than getting a good deal, I went through the junk bins and small piles of paper money looking for that overlooked replacement, fancy serial number, etc. Unfortunately, I didn't find any. However, I did find two uncirculated notes to fill some holes in my set, a Series 461 five cent note and a Series 472 twenty-five cent note, 2nd printing. Additionally, I found a AMC 50 mark note, Soviet printing. This is a note I would have had no interest in or even know how to distinguish it until I took the Summer Seminar in July. On a personal side, I saw Gail Baker, education director for the ANA, behind their table. I took out my challenge coin, and after fumbling through her purse, she matched it with hers. As she had to stay there, I owe her a soda at next year's Summer Seminar. Another look at the Bernhard counterfeits by Joe Boling At the Colorado Spring coins show during the ANA summer seminar this year I found a British £10 white note in a holder marked as a Bernhard counterfeit. However, the diagnostic watermark point, described in Schwan/Boling, indicated that this was a genuine note. Since I already had a Bernhard £10 fake, and I like to collect counterfeits paired with genuine pieces, I negotiated a good price (for an AU+ note) and bought the piece. In subsequent email discussions of it with British collectors, they said that they would like me to bring it to the IBNS World Paper Money Fair in London, which I did. When I showed it to the first British note specialist I encountered, it was rejected with a casual glance. Surprised at that reception, I asked what diagnostic feature had been seen that made it bad, and was pointed to several features. The most telling is in the engraving of Britannia. There is a small leaf point along the lower right curve that does not make a distinct separation from the main leaf that it protrudes from; rather it makes a non-descript bump, with the line that defines it continuing along the main leaf. On a genuine note that line cuts back across the line that defines the main leaf from which it protrudes, making a distinct notch there. On some notes it is more pronounced than others, but I must have examined fifty genuine white fives and tens this weekend, and in all cases that small protrusion was well-defined and separated from the leaf that it emanated from. Other features mentioned by the first examiner were: the smooth edge is on the right rather than on the left (white notes have deckle edges on three sides), and there is no sorting notch in the right edge of this note. Sorting notches are round bites taken from the right edges of white notes to facilitate sorting by denomination when a stack is handled. On ten pound notes the notch, if present, is about an inch down from the top right corner. When I asked about the fact that the watermark seemed correct, I was told that that information was not 100% correct. In fact, on this note the curved line coming up to the pediment of the N that we use for separating Bernhard notes is as far to the left as I have ever seen--almost missing the N. The other alleged Bernhard pieces I have seen have it only modestly offset to the left. I showed it to other white note collectors, who could say only that it looked suspicious to them, without specifics of why (acknowledging that the watermark seemed correct). One dealer said he would have bought it in a second, if I had not asked about his experiences with these notes. Several wanted to feel the paper, and declared it "waxy," and thus suspect. Eventually I was directed to a specialist in white notes. He rejected the piece immediately based on the "feel" of the entire watermark--the overall look of it, not a tactile evaluation. He could not say exactly what was different about it, but that the German watermark boards had not received the long use that the British ones had, and that this long use changed the way the watermark appears. I take that to mean that the Bernhard watermarks are too "crisp," or too well defined, and comparing it with one particular genuine note that he had (and that I bought) I can see that the vertical curved watermark lines in the genuine piece are much less defined than in the Bernhard piece. He said that about 75% of the Bernhard pieces have the line-to- the-left watermark feature that we less-educated folks have been looking for. He also condemned the waxy feel and the firm body of the paper in the suspect note, and indeed the paper in the genuine note that I bought feels much more limp than that of the fake (though it is a circulated note, which may have a bearing on that). As for the other two features that the first observer cited, he said that white notes were printed two-up on the deckle edged paper, and then guillotined, so the straight edge can appear on either end. Also, sorting notches do not appear on all notes (and based on my observations, I'd say that they do not appear on most notes). Several of the folks I talked to mentioned Brian Bruce’s book on the Bernhard forgeries. I have the book, and was aware that he has much information about engraving distinctions in the bad notes, but I had always thought that that was extra information, not essential information. I will be revisiting that book as soon as I get home (I am writing this in London Sunday night). To summarize--a curved watermark line centered in the pediment of the first N of England is diagnostic of a Bernhard note; BUT, a note with that line offset to the left of center is NOT NECESSARILY a genuine note; it may ALSO be a Bernhard note, and other features must be used to make the call. One collector mentioned "St. James" notes as preceding the Bernhard fakes and also being excellent copies. I did not have time to follow up on that before the show closed. Does any reader know what a St James note is (and I may not be remembering that name correctly)? ============================================== Editorial ----------------------------------------------- Hm, well I see that yesterday's Gram used number 457 when it should have been number 458. If you happened to delete it upon noticing the number, but without seeing that the content was new, let us know and we will send you another copy. This issue then is correctly number 459 which will contribute to the consternation of future historians studying the Gram. Sorry, guys. ============================================== Mail Call ----------------------------------------------- Dear Editor, I guess by now you are back from London, and a few days ago, the 8th or 9th, I believe, I complained of getting two copies of the MPCGram. I worried about double payment, and that has been taken care of, I think. Since I have not gotten any Gram since 457 (of which I got two) I presume I am no longer paying the usual subscription rate. I'll pay! I'll pay! Please, regardless of subscription charge, put me back on the list. Please, pretty please. I miss it!!! Bill Murray Dear Editor, For the weekend of October 20th, The Butternut Coin Company will be at two small but excellent shows, buying, appraising and selling some wonderful new coins and collections I have recently purchased. On Saturday, the 20th, I will be at the Salem Coin Club show held at the American Legion Building, 710 Apperson Drive, Salem, Virginia. I will be there from 10am to 4pm. The next day, I will be driving North to Trevose Coin Show, in Trevose, Pennsylvania (just outside Philadelphia. Exit 28 PA Turnpike. Half mile west on Street Road to 4900 Street Road at the Trevose Fire House Hall). I will be there from 10am to 2pm. If your in the area, do stop in. My best regards, COL Steve & Big Jake ================================================ Departments ------------------------------------------------- Calendar of events for Gramsters maintained by Howard Daniel, Nancy and John Wilson and Gram staff, last updated September 7, 2001 show reports are requested on all events. Even if it was not a great show, there must be something to report. What and whom did you see? Market activity? Share your observations and thoughts with Gramsters everywhere. ---------------------------------------------------- Special "MPC" events March 2002 8-10 - MPCFest III - reservations in order received: Guido Crapanzano, Harold Kroll, Larry Smulczenski, Gary "Got any fours" Hicks, Tom Warburton, David Seelye, Jack Lippincot, Phil Goldstein, Warner Talso, Nich Schrier, Tom Koch, Mark Watson, Bill Yanchick, Doug Bell, Sam Feeback, Bruce Potter, Elmer Smith, Marv Mericle, Fred Schwan {running total 19}] W.W.II numismatics seminar at ANA Summer Seminar, July 2002 Session I (Sunday, June 30 through Thursday, July 4, 2002) Session II (Sunday, July 7 through Thursday, July 11, 2002) --------------------------------------------------- Donations are now being accepted for scholarships to the 2002 "Military Money" course at the 2002 ANA Summer Seminar. Inquiries and donations should be sent to: Military Numismatists c/o Marcus Turner 8103 East US Highway 36 Suite 163 Avon, IN 46123 Donors to 2002 Scholarship Fund Steve Feller Harold Kroll R. A. Medina Guido Crapanzano David Seelye Leo May Warner Talso Marv Mericle Mark Watson Gail Baker ==================================================== Post/Base Exchange (PX/BX/NEX) Dump your dupes! Your classified advertisement for items for sale will be run here for free. Send your ads to the gram. This service is for everyone, most humble dealer or most advanced collector. The point is to make the gram more interesting. Send in a list of items for sale and we will list them here in the gram. In all cases confirm your order via email first. FOR SALE For Sale: Les Billets Français du Trésor by Claude Fayette. http://members.iquest.net/~maturner/tresor.jpg 141 pages of full color (in French). Perhaps one of the most beautiful numismatics books ever published. $60 postage paid to US or APO addresses. I only have two available. First come first serve. Contact maturner@iquest.net Marcus A Turner 8103 East US Highway 36, Suite 163 Avon, IN 46123 USA (317)272-7450 Fax (317)272-1887 WANTED Collectors may submit lists of items wanted for their collections for listing here. Dealers and collectors who have these items are then encouraged to list them or sale in the above section. This is a trial, if you like it, send your list. =================================================== Staff: publisher and editor: Fred Schwan - MPCGram@Yahoo.com; assistant editor - Phil Goldstein IWANTMYMPC@aol.com distribution manager - Brad Peacock bp22@swbell.net Tuesday columnist Joe Boling – JoeBoling@aol.com Thurski columnist Larry “Ski” Smulczenski –skifla@prodigy.net critic: Harold Kroll - MPCKid@AOL.com; index manager: Ed Beaman webmaster & technical advisor: Doug Bell - (Wiz): doug@papermoneyworld.net; The Boss: Judy Schwan ===== MPC Gram is published by BNR Press and papermoneyworld.com as a free service to the community of military money collectors. Your suggestions, criticisms, complaints, editorial contributions, letters, and even praise are very welcome. The entire contents including linked illustrations are copyright protected by the publishers. In the case of contributors, the copyright is protected on behalf of the creators. Please send all correspondence regarding the gram to MPCgram@yahoo.com. Thank you very much for your participation. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com