From: "MPCgram" To: Subject: MPCGram 747 Date: Friday, October 11, 2002 11:03 AM ============================================== MPC GRAM ============================================== Covering the entire World of Military Numismatics Series 003 - Number 747 Friday Oct 11, 2002 My thoughts on "Carlson's Copies" by Philip M. Goldstein After reading Carlson Chambliss' response "Letter Surprises" (in the Sept 2002 Bank Note Reporter), to Marcus Turner's article, I felt compelled to respond to Carlson's letter. This letter hopefully will surprise him as well: I also feel very strongly, that his "good looking but easily distinguishable replicas" will affect the MPC market, and his reasoning behind his "response" is hogwash. Buyer A purchases Carlson's Copies. Buyer A may already have a few readily available notes. Let's say, a 541 $5 in any grade appears on a Internet auction, mail bid list or dealers list. Buyer A most likely hesitates bidding/buying, and feels "why bid and spend money on a real note, as I already own a good looking but easily distinguishable replica. I don't really need it that bad right now." We all know what drives the market, is needs and wants (a/k/a demand). Granted, this collector is making a mistake in the long run, but not in his/her eyes at that moment. And we know WE ALL have made mistakes not buying something right away when the opportunity presented itself for dumb reasons. We're not talking an investment grade note here for an investment minded buyer/collector. Just a circ note, that is tough, and affordable, but still a note, that due to the rarity, should fetch good money just the same. So, Buyer A ultimately does not bid. Which in effect, keeps the bidding lower. Buyer A then on future opportunities, reflects: "I lived this long without that note, I can live a longer without it." After which, if you multiply that thinking by the other people who purchase Carlson's Copies, you have compounded the problem many fold, and THAT WILL affect the MPC market. I am by no means saying everyone who purchases a set of Carlson's Copies won't bid, but those of them who feel spending $24.95 on set of replicas are taking the easy way out, and will be hesitant of spending money, and thereby more inclined to keep their wallets closed. The closest analogy I can think of to this dilemma, is the Shelby Cobra 429. This car is rare, and used to sell for more than $100,000 for an original. But when the after market replicas appeared on the market about 12-15 years back, those of the car enthusiasts who were hot for a Shelby Cobra, purchased the replica for $30,000, which dropped the market on the originals. If you look, you can buy originals now for under $50,000. I feel the same will happen to certain MPC notes over time, because of replicas. Now, I personally don't mind copies of a really rare note, if said note is truly unobtainable on the open market. A copy of a 1, 2 or even 3 only known example note is acceptable. But for Carlson to make copies of notes regularly available in uncirculated grades, and that are $50 or under, makes no sense, and will affect the market the same way as above only to a lesser extent. Buyer B, wants an uncirculated Series 641 .10 cent. Buyer B, never really gets around to purchasing one, because... you guessed it, he/she has a "good looking but easily distinguishable replica." The reasons may vary, but effect is the same... Less bidding and purchasing. Carlson says the copies were made for educational purposes? He's right -- we are all (the MPC market) going to get an education soon enough. Now I have another sore point with Carlson's letter in the BNR. He says "only a few advanced collectors can afford top grade examples of the major rarities such as $5 notes of 471 and 541..." Uncirculated rarities make the advanced collector? I'm sorry, I must not be an advanced collector, because I never owned a unc 541 $5 or 661 $10 and probably never will, and not because of money. I own only such rare items as a Series 641 .10 Progressive Proof Set, a Series 641 Specimen Set, a Specimen Book of both AMC Italy notes and AMC Germany Mark notes, among a few other neat & desirable items. But I guess I'm not an advanced collector. I guess Doug Bell is not one either. He has only undertaken (in my opinion) the most difficult task known to date, and of readily known notes: assembling a complete Position Number Set, of all 13 issued series. When Doug is finishes, I'm sure he will have more invested in his Position Number Set, than what a Series 541 $5 AND a Series 661 $10 are both worth in unc. But I guess he is not an advanced collector. Nor is June Nusbaum - she owns many replacements, some less than unc notes. Her name is at the top of every list when it comes to replacement collecting, but I guess she isn't an advanced collector, as Carlson sees it. So what makes an advanced collector? Money spent? Not in my book. It's the person who finds new and unusual ways to collect a subject, which are off the beaten path. Finds new and unusual ways to locate and purchase these items. Like me, when Multiple Printings first were announced. Then Harold Kroll who took over the Multiple Printings AND his High Serial Number quest. Doug with his Position Number Set, Larry Smulczenski with Serial Number 39, Fred with Errors, the list is endless. There are many ways of being an advanced collector, but spending vast amounts of money to own the best note is not the ticket. Granted, that person will have made an investment, and which will result in a collection worth a substantial amount of money. But having an all unc collection, although costly, is not a new feat or unheard of. Also to underscore this, is the fact that many dealers now accept over time payments on high-end notes, so even a limited budget collector can afford the real higher priced notes. Taking this topic to a completely acceptable stretch, would be a buyer of Carlson's Copies, might feel they are not "serious" or dedicated enough to consider attending the Fest's. This thinking would thereby cause a situation preventing them (and us) from learning more about MPC, expanding their knowledge and broadening their horizons. I know I felt a little hesitant about attending Fest 1, and for the very reason that I was a beginner, with average circ notes. What contributions could I make? But what if I really had not attended? Or how about any of you (who did attend) but chose not to? Hindsight is 20/20. Carlson's statement: "Thus the serial numbers on the replicas match those on my own (very tightly held) original notes. In today's market the value of these notes would probably be somewhat in excess of $50,000, but a full set of replicas would only cost about 0.004 percent of this amount." Yup, the replicas would only be worth 0.004 percent (approximately) of the real notes too. If anyone were to make replicas of complete sets of US Morgan Dollars, replicas of all issues of US fractional currency, or how about replicas of every national banknote known to mankind... How well would THEY be received, and what would THEY do to their respective markets? ============================================== Editorial ============================================== Thanks to Phil for helping fill the Mail Call inbox for the next few days! Phil’s commentary bought me yet another day to work on the report of the POW conference—and I need the time. It is amazing how things pile up while away! Mail, snail and electronic, leaky faucets and the lawn to name just a few seem to conspire against me when I am off on important trips. Of course I have some ideas about Phil’s comments above. I will probably share those along with the mail that I anticipate coming in on this topic. Fred ============================================== Mail Call ============================================== Dear Gram, The ANA website has posted pictures from the 2002 Summer Seminar. To start from the beginning, click on: http://www.money.org/summer2002images1.html To jump directly to the page containing pictures from the Military Money class, click on: http://www.money.org/summer2002images5.html Cheers, Mark C. Watson Dear Mark, Thanks for the info. One question though. Who is the fat guy? Fred Dear editor, The latest data I have received on serial numbers for BAFSVs, 2nd Series £1, wmk, PM22a & b are: 1. Highest PM22a serial number - AA/10 680,591. 2. Lowest PM22b serial number - AA/10 780,118. 3. Highest PM22b serial number - AA/10 872,569. Assumption: highest serial number is <999,000. Word from Theo van Elmpt, via a British dealer, is that he suspects the break point for the change to watermarked paper was at AA/10 750,000. The above date would appear to support that supposition; but does anyone know any different? Can any MPCGram readers help me build my collection of Malay JIM. I'm one of those nuts who is collecting this series by block letters and intial serial numbers. I was born in Singapore just after the end of WWII and have dim memories of being lifted off Loyang beach by RN MGBs during the Maria Hertog riots. Hence my interest in this area and time. Condition is not an issue if I do not possess the note. I can exchange for notes in my surplus collection or pay in US$ or Sterling. I have all $10 "smokeless note" block letters but am looking for OSS and other forgeries. Regards, Andrew M. Clark. Hi Gramsters, UV lights can usually be found at hardware stores. Even in a small town such as Iola until our hardware store went out of business recently. Cheers, Colin Dear Esteemed Editor, I bought my UV light from Anything Anywhere (Bob Reis), and have bought more as gifts to collectors and dealers in Southeast Asia. It has made two overseas trips in the bottom of my black bag and still works. We all seem to be satisfied with it but I would be interested in knowing about anything equal or better in "traveling" size. Go to www.anythinganywhere.com/list203-1.htm and it is listed in his favorite supplies area as "BLACKLIGHT, small, handheld unit, and CHEAP. While they last: 17.50." For those of you who purchase it, please write a letter to the editor about its usefulness. He also has many WWII and other military pieces for sale. Howard A. Daniel III You can add me to the MPC Fest list. I will pay sometime.......maybe. Bill McNease Dear Gram, The Gram is good and I enjoy receiving it and studying the books, but you guys are too technical for me. W. Jones (paraphrased from phone conversation) ============================================== CALENDAR OF EVENTS ============================================== 2002 Paper Money Convention IBNS Sydney & Melbourne Chapters 2/3 November 2002 Artarmon Motor Inn, Sydney Australia Contact Tony James wk. 61 2 9235 0888 fax. 61 2 9235 0588 email:- info@tonyjamesnoteworld.biz Come on escape the Winter in the north and see the Land Down Under. Very Inexpensive! Australian dollar is only 55c US !!!!! St. Louis paper money show 21-24 November WESPMEX:11 - 13 October Westchester Paper Money Exposition - 100 Dealers Westchester County Center, White Plains, NY WESPMEX:29 November - 1 December Westchester Paper Money Exposition - 160 Dealers Westchester County Center, White Plains, NY 2003 FUN Florida United Numismatists, Orlando, 9 - 12Jan 2003 CPMX 9: 20 - 23 February, Chicago, IL MPC Fest IV: 28 Feb - 2 March, Port Clinton, OH Fest Registrants: Doug Bell, Joe Boling, Guido Crapanzano, Dick Freyser, Philip M. Goldstein, Gary Hicks, Harold Kroll, Jack Lippincot, Kevin Maloy, Leo May$$, Fred Schwan, David Seelye, Nick Shrier, Larry Smulczenski, Warner Talso, Marcus Turner, Tom Warburton, Mark Watson, Bill Yanchick, Tom Koch, Nancy and John Wilson, Bill McNease $$ = Paid Running total: 23 ANA:21-23 March 2003, March, Charlotte, NC ======================================== 2003 scholarship fund Donations of cash and numismatic material will be gladly accepted. Generally the numismatic material is auctioned at MPCFest, but might be sold via ebay or other places. Your scholarship donations help the hobby by sending qualified individuals to the ANA summer seminar military money class. Except for unavoidable charges like ebay fees, 100% of your donation goes to scholarships. 2003 Scholarship Donors Ed Hoffman RA Medina Dick Freyser Larry Smulczenski David Seelye Howard Daniel Steve Feller Warner Talso Contact me at: "Marcus Turner" maturner@indy.rr.com Checks should be made out to the "Military Numismatists Scholarship". or Marcus Turner 8103 East US Highway 36 Suite 163 Avon, Indiana 46123 USA ========================================================== Subscription information: You can enter an email address to receive the gram by using the link below. Use this to change your address (add the new one), add a friend or enemy. http://www.papermoneyworld.net/WebMailList/Default.asp =================================================== HOT CONTACT LIST - DEALER & RESOURCE LIST Below is the BNR Press Hot Contact List. This list serves several functions. Obviously it is an outreach by the dealers listed for your business. Most of them buy and sell MPC. Others organize shows or publish periodicals, or furnish information dedicated to this field. They have supported the new Comprehensive Catalog of Military Payment Certificates with their advertising. They deserve your support and patronage! Name phone fax / cell email Allens (614) 882-3937 (614) 882-0662 info@allens.com American Coins & Collectibles (800) 865-3562 American Numismatic Ass'n(800) 367-9723 ana@money.org Guy Araby(562) 945-7891(310) 508-0018 guyaraby@earthlink.net Bob Baker(713) 864-3122 Ken Barr (408) 272-3247 ken@kenbarr.com Fred Bart (810) 979-3400 Dick Balbaton(508) 699-2266 (508) 643-1154 RJBalbaton@aol.com Keith and Suzanne Bauman (248) 262-1514 tnaksbauman@earthlink.net Joe Bissell (602) 440-0442 (602) 494-9103 BNR Press(419) 732-6683 (419) 732-6683 fredschwan@yahoo.com Remy Bourne(800) 789-7070 (763) 789-4747 Ed Carne (614) 882-3937 (614) 882-0662 info@allens.com Champion Stamp (212)489-8130 (212) 581-8130 Cookie Jar Collectibles (301) 604-9225 cjcpi@comcast.net Guido Crapanzano [39] 2-8056228 [39] 2-4459856 Currency Dealer Newsletter (310) 515-7369 David F. Cieniewicz(205)852-7015 CGC (602) 493-4758 (602) 494-9103 sales@gradedcurrency.com Mike Cummings (863)603-9899 (863) 603-9880 mpccoin@hotmail.com Cygnet Charters(419) 734-2422 Ray Czahor (301) 604-9225 cjcpi@comcast.net Doric Coins & Currency (508) 699-2266 (508) 643-1154 FUN(407) 321-8747 Philip M. Goldstein (845) 254-MPC1 [6721] iwantmympc@aol.com or MPC Website Great Lakes Bank Note Company(419) 732-6683 IBNS joeboling@aol.com Essie Kashani(909) 627-3996 (909) 627-2776 kashani10@aol.com Lowel Horwdel (765) 583-2748 (765) 583-4584 horwdel@inshightbb.com Lyn Knight(800) 243-5211 Krause Publications (715) 445-2214 (715) 445-4087 bnr@krause.com Harold Kroll(251) 649-5134 HARBONS@aol.com Leo May (305) 271-8391(305) 720-0659 LeoMayEnt@aol.com or Wide World of Banknotes Ian Marshall(416) 445-0286 (416) 445-0286 iam@total.net Memphis Coin Club (901) 757-2515 MPCGram (419) 732-6683 MPCGram@yahoo.com Bob Reed(504) 361-5684 bobreed@rrcoins.net Fred Schwan (419) 732-6683 (419) 732-6683 FredSchwan@yahoo.com David Seelye(585) 594-1987 (585) 594-2311 coinman@rochester.rr.com Richie Self (318) 868-9077 R. M. Smythe(800) 622-1880 (212) 908-4047 www.smytheonline.com Mel Steinberg & Son(415) 453-9750 (415) 457-4432 melsteinberg@mindspring.com Military Trader(800) 334-7165 Scott Winslow Associates (603)472-7040 (603) 472-8773 scott@scottwinslow.com George Warner(307) 672-3700 Pam West [44] 0208 641 3224[44] 0208 641 3224 pamwestbritnotes@compuserve.com =================================================== POST / BASE EXCHANGE(PX/BX/NEX) Dump your dupes! Your classified advertisement for items for sale, purchase or trade will be run here for free. Send your ads to the gram. This service is for everyone, most humble dealer or most advanced collector. The point is to make the gram more interesting. In all cases confirm your order via email first. Denomination CATALOG # PRINT # GRADE PRICE AMC ALLIED MILITARY CURRENCY FRANCE 2 FRANC P114A CU $6.00 5 FRANC P115A CU $7.50 50 FRANC P117A VF+ $8.50 50 FRANC P122A VF $5.00 P122A XF $15.00 P122B 2 FRANCS XF $20.00 P122C 3 VF+ $15.00 100 FRANC P118A XF- $7.00 P123C 4 XF $8.00 GERMANY 1/2 MARK P191A VF+ $2.00 1 MARK P192A CU $6.00 5 MARK P193A XF+ $4.00 10 MARK P194A VF+ $15.00 P194A XF $20.00 20 MARK P195A VF+ $10.00 P195A AU $25.00 50 MARK P196B XF $15.00 100 MARK P197A VF+ $5.50 P197A XF $7.50 P197D XF $15.00 AMC ALLIED MILITRAY CURRENCY ITALY 1 LIRE PM10A CU $4.00 PM10B CU $4.00 2 LIRE PM11A AU $3.00 5 LIRE PM18A CU $6.00 PM18B XF $4.00 10 LIRE PM13A XF $8.00 SPOTS ON REVERSE PM19A CU $12.00 50 LIRE PM20A VG $1.50 100 LIRE PM15B XF+ $25.00 PM21A XF+ $18.00 PM21B XF- $12.00 500 LIRE PM22A VF $35.00 1000 LIRE PM23A VF $35.00 JAPAN 10 SEN P63 CU $7.00 P63 CU $50.00 8 CONSECUTIVE SERIAL NUMBERS 50 SEN P65 CU $7.00 1 YEN P67A CU $7.00 5 YEN P69A CU $12.00 10 YEN P71 VF $4.00 20 YEN P73 AU+ $30.00 100 YEN P75 VG $3.50 BELGIUM 10 FRANCS P122 XF- $5.00 MORROCCO 2 FRANC P43 G $0.50 50 CENTIMES P41 VF $2.00 Allied Military Currency from MPC/ Gibbs Enterprizes P.O. Box 83 Gering, NE 69341 (308)635-7900 oth@prairieweb.com TERMS: Make checks payable to Gibbs Enterprizes. Personal checks are OK but allow 14 days for them to clear. Add $1.00 for postage and $1.10 for insurance for orders over $15.00 up to $50.00. Add $2.20 for orders up to $100.00 and $3.20 for orders up to $200.00. Nebraska residents add appropriate state and local sales tax. All items are one of a kind and subject to prior sale. We are always looking for MPC and AMC. Let us know what you have For sale or trade. Want lists are welcome. No obligation to buy if we have it, but we will let you know if we get it. Ten day return privilege on all items, but we would appreciate a reason for the return so we know what was wrong. Thanks! Have it above, sorry for the screwy format on the terms. Thanks, Larry Military Payment Certificates & Allied Military Currency from MPC/ Gibbs Enterprizes P.O. Box 83 Gering, NE 69341 (308)635-7900 oth@prairieweb.com WANTED SECTION: Collectors may submit lists of items wanted for their collections for listing here. Dealers and collectors who have these items, are then encouraged to list them for sale in the above section as a reply. Wanted listings will run for a period of 1 month. WANTED - Fancy Series 641 fractional notes – any condition. (5/18) WANTED - Philippine Guerrila Money (5/26) Wanted: War and other bonds issued by the US government, will purchase or trade. =================================================== MPC CATALOG CORRECTIONS & ENHANCEMENTS Page 18, Bottom - Users of Military Payment Certificates Check marks were omitted from production copies of books. Please check off the following: Australia: 641, 661, 681, 692 Canada:461 through and including 591 Korea: 641, 661, 681, 692 New Zealand:641, 661, 681, 692 Thailand: 641, 661, 681, 692 United States: All (date listed: 02 APRIL 2002) Page 201, Bottom Right - Very last sentence on this page Two serial numbers listed for the second printing of Series 472 .50 cent notes. The first serial number listed is obviously in error as a nine digit number: C040351392C Correct Serial Number is: C04035139C D Freyser (date listed 10 April 2002) Page 207, #833/4 - Series 481 .25 4th Printing (table listing serial number breakdowns) line 5 Start Number is incorrect. It appears as: (start) D14784001D(end) D14784000D Correct start number should be: D09408001D PK6 (date listed: 03 APRIL 2002) Page 214, #855/r2 - Series 541 $1 Replacements, Ending serial number is incorrect Correct number is F1112000 (date listed: 02 APRIL 2002) Page 220, #884/2r - Series 641 .50 Replacements On page 284, it is broken down into 2 printings. That's correct, BUT, on page 220 he lists only (1) printing reported. It should "list" both first and second printings. Guy Araby (date listed 04 APRIL 2002) Page 287, Series 661 Series Summary, 25 cent note: the "list" shows "#CU as 10(7) . It should read, 8(7). As only 8 are known in CU. Just recount P.289. Guy Araby (date listed 08 APRIL 2002) Page 398, Series #541 $10 on "UNC." price is $2500, on P.214 the UNC. price is $3500. Also the rest of the prices don't match all the way to "VG" on this issue. They should be the same price. Guy Araby (date listed 08 APRIL 2002) =================================================== MPC Gram Staff: Publisher: Fred Schwan - MPCGram@yahoo.com Editor: Philip M. Goldstein - IWANTMYMPC@aol.com Subscription Manager:Doug Bell - doug@papermoneyworld.net Tuesday Columnist : Joe Boling - JoeBoling@aol.com Thurski Columnist: Larry "Ski" Smulczenski - skifla@prodigy.net Friday Columnist:Fred Schwan - MPCGram@yahoo.com Critic: Harold Kroll - HARBONS@aol.com Scholarship Coordinator: Marcus Turner - maturner@indy.rr.com Index & Back Issue Manager:vacant Webmaster & Technical Advisors:Doug Bell "Wiz" - doug@papermoneyworld.net Russ Walsh - russ.walsh@gte.net Fact Checker: Warner Talso - Calendar Coordinator: John & Nancy Wilson - The Boss: Judy Schwan ===== MPC Gram is published by BNR Press and papermoneyworld.com as a free service to the community of military money collectors. Your suggestions, criticisms, complaints, editorial contributions, letters, and even praise are very welcome. The entire contents including linked illustrations are copyright protected by the publishers. In the case of contributors, the copyright is protected on behalf of the creators. Please send all correspondence regarding the gram to MPCgram@yahoo.com. Thank you very much for your participation. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com