From: "MPCgram" To: Subject: MPCGram 756 Date: Monday, October 21, 2002 12:20 PM ============================================== MPC GRAM ============================================== Covering the entire World of Military Numismatics Series 003 - Number 756 Monday Oct 21, 2002 More Cons on Replicas By Al Babb I am also somewhat disturbed by what I have read concerning the MPC "replicas.” I believe that the introduction of "replicas" of MPC amounts to little more than the "bastardization" of OUR hobby. Unfortunately the success or failures of Dr. Chambliss’ entrepunerial venture is not likely to depend on whether the MPC collectors support his product or not since serious MPC collectors will have little need for replicas. My un-educated guess is that these items will wind up like the Confederate and Colonial numismatic replicas that are currently sold to tourists at national parks gift shops. For those of you, who walked away with the impression that Mr. Goldstein’s discussion of the problem was a market based argument, think again. In reality the state of the market has little to do with this. The market is what the market is: an opportunity to buy or sell. I felt that Mr. Goldstein’s argument was based on the following points: 1) what makes a great collector (numismatist)? 2) What is the thought process of someone with an initial interest in MPC and how does this interest grow into a passion? His points were well thought/stated and do not need to be re-hashed by me. Here are some of my recent thoughts on the debate. MPC replicas do NOT lend any sense of completeness to a partial MPC collection. A hole is a hole is a hole. It does not matter if you are missing the 1933 $20 gold piece or the Series 481 $5 4th printing piece, the collection is not complete. Having a photo of an ultra-rare item definitely compliments the academic pursuit of the hobby, but a replica used as a place holder lends nothing to an individual collection. Keep in mind that that joy in any area of numismatics is the “thrill of the chase.” Sometimes these pursuits can take a lifetime to realize if ever realized at all. Please do not short change yourselves by settling for a double sided, color photocopy of anything. The second notion I wish to dispel is that MPC collecting is not affordable. In fact it is quite inexpensive when rarity versus price is closely examined. What does a 1916 D Mercury dime currently sell for in uncirculated condition? What does a series 541 $5 uncirculated note sell for? Clearly the 1916 D unc Dime is considerably more expensive than would be the UNC 541 $5, although the 541 $5 is a much more rare piece. My point is that any numismatist would be thrilled to purchase such rare items for a price that is relatively low in comparison to the mainstream US coin or paper money market. Once again, I do not wish to make this a market based debate, but I do want illustrate that real examples of MPC are within a very reasonable reach of the average collector from a economic standpoint, thus being a great selling point in attracting new hobbyists to the realm of MPC. Someone made the statement that the replicas would be beneficial to museums. I ask what self respecting museum would place replica MPC on display. Certainly I would not expect to see a replica of the Star of Africa on display at the Smithsonian no more than I would expect to see replica MPC on display at the ANA museum. Obviously this a question that would not be for me to answer, however I would be very surprised to see color photocopies of any paper money on display at the ANA (or any other) museum. Mr. Seelye points out that this issue will all boil down to personal preference. He is absolutely correct. This argument will, however apply to absolutely anything. What kind of car you drive, if you smoke or not, if you are a member of the communist party, if you like pickles on your hamburger, if you want to go camping in Antarctica are all matters of personal preference. To plea personal preference is not very persuasive, is definitely not proactive nor does it make for great reading in the MPCGram (capitalized). If replicas are so wonderful for promoting collecting, then why do we not see organizations like the ANA making them? Mr. Chambliss answers that question for us. In MOST cases concerning US materials it is illegal. OK, new example: Why does the IBNS not produce replicas of the Panama banknotes? I believe it is a simple matter of ethics. Many organizations produce souvenir cards for special shows or events. I have even seen where some clubs have produced cards as fund raisers. What is the difference? I believe that when the physical characteristics (as opposed to the design) of the note are duplicated, the line has been crossed. I do not see any sort of problem in duplicating the face or back design of a note (even on the same page), but when those two items are brought together back to back and the paper is cut to imitate the note, you have invited trouble. The good news: Although I do not agree with many of the opinions expressed, I am very pleased to see this level of healthy debate. It is also wonderful to see that so many of the opinions expressed are centered on the will to grow the base of MPC collectors and the hobby in general. It really speaks to the quality of individuals involved in this area of numismatics. It is a wonderful idea to the person suggesting donating MPC to the ANA museum. Where can I send my donation? Fred: You said you were going to weigh in on this debate. When will we hear you your opinion? ============================================== Editorial ============================================== Thanks to Al for a thoughtful commentary. He has called my bluff on stating my opinion on the Chambliss copies. My basic opinion is that if it is legal, it is not worth getting upset about. Frankly, we could have a discussion about the legality of this project. Carlson did quite a bit of work to establish the legality, but there is still room for discussion. Nevertheless, I will not have that discussion, at least not now. The point about use in museums is interesting. I suspect that Al is probably correct about the copies not being very desirable for numismatic museums. The ANA Museum is preparing a WWII exhibit as we know. I suspect that the ANA museum might set up a scene of pay operations in the field using props for rifles and other military equipment, but with genuine military money. On the other hand, if a “military” museum had the same or similar exhibit, the organizers there might be satisfied with the replica notes, but would not consider props for the other items. The souvenir card discussion is interesting. Not too many years ago, a prominent collector was criticized in print by an ANA official (and Gramster) for cutting a note from a souvenir card, framing it, and hanging it in his office. This was an intaglio card produced by the BEP. I was amazed at the criticism. I challenged the official with the argument that if anyone should be subject of criticism, it should have been the BEP which produced the item. So, Fred, just what is your opinion? In my heart of hearts, I wish that the copies had not been made. However, even having said that, I am not at all certain that the net result will not be positive. Heck, the results HAVE been positive—the subject has helped fill the Gram. Fred ============================================== Mail Call ============================================== Howdy, to all 'Gramsters and our Esteemed Editor, Those of y'all who have known me for [ahem]...a long time... will remember that I am an ole' '60's hippie who didn't give up his long hair 'til 1999. As such, I have had 'experience' with black lights since 1968 or so. Even tho' a fair amount of my brain cells may have gone up in smoke since then, I do remember that there were always vision-related warnings on the boxes that the black lights came in... especially the big'uns. I first 'discovered' the UV-sensitive inks on notes whilst sitting on my apartment floor with my black light and my foreign note collection when I lived in Houston in 1969. Most of the notes with hidden UV-designs seemed to be American Bank Note products. But I digress, the point of this missive is to stress that one should NOT look directly at the UV light source. There is a lot of energy being put out in this end of the spectrum. It is this end of the spectrum that our atmosphere filters out; therefore, our eyes are NOT used to UV. I know, I know, the atmosphere filters out the other end of the spectrum, too; however, the atmospheric filtering at the UV end is much more effective than at the Infrared end. PROLONGED DIRECT EXPOSURE TO UV WILL DAMAGE YOUR VISION!!!! Please forgive my shouting, I just want folks to be careful. As ever, have fun and enjoy this endeavor in a healthy manner. Jay in Garrison, TX ============================================== CALENDAR OF EVENTS ============================================== 2002 Paper Money Convention IBNS Sydney & Melbourne Chapters 2/3 November 2002 Artarmon Motor Inn, Sydney Australia Contact Tony James wk. 61 2 9235 0888 fax. 61 2 9235 0588 email:- info@tonyjamesnoteworld.biz Come on escape the Winter in the north and see the Land Down Under. Very Inexpensive! Australian dollar is only 55c US !!!!! Baltimore Coin and Currency Convention, November 7-10 2002. Baltimore Convention Center. Hours are Fri-Sat 10AM- 7 PM. Sunday 10AM-4PM. Included will be a Bowers and Merena Auction and an Auction by Presidential Coins and Medals of exonumia and political memorabilia. [Len Harsel reports that he will have a table at this show] St. Louis paper money show 21-24 November WESPMEX:11 - 13 October Westchester Paper Money Exposition - 100 Dealers Westchester County Center, White Plains, NY WESPMEX:29 November - 1 December Westchester Paper Money Exposition - 160 Dealers Westchester County Center, White Plains, NY December 7, opening of World War II Numismatics exhibition at American Numismatic Association Museum, Colorado Springs, CO. [Warner Talso confirmed, Fred Schwan likely] 2003 FUN Florida United Numismatists, Orlando, 9 - 12Jan 2003 CPMX 9: 20 - 23 February, Chicago, IL MPC Fest IV: 28 Feb - 2 March, Port Clinton, OH Fest Registrants: Doug Bell, Joe Boling, Guido Crapanzano, Dick Freyser, Philip M. Goldstein, Gary Hicks, Harold Kroll, Jack Lippincot, Kevin Maloy, Leo May$$, Fred Schwan, David Seelye, Nick Shrier, Larry Smulczenski, Warner Talso, Marcus Turner, Tom Warburton, Mark Watson, Bill Yanchick, Tom Koch, Nancy and John Wilson, Bill McNease, Cuneyt Tolek $$ = Paid Running total: 24 ANA:21-23 March 2003, March, Charlotte, NC ======================================== 2003 scholarship fund Donations of cash and numismatic material will be gladly accepted. Generally the numismatic material is auctioned at MPCFest, but might be sold via ebay or other places. Your scholarship donations help the hobby by sending qualified individuals to the ANA summer seminar military money class. Except for unavoidable charges like ebay fees, 100% of your donation goes to scholarships. 2003 Scholarship Donors Ed Hoffman RA Medina Dick Freyser Larry Smulczenski David Seelye Howard Daniel Steve Feller Warner Talso Contact me at: "Marcus Turner" maturner@indy.rr.com Checks should be made out to the "Military Numismatists Scholarship". or Marcus Turner 8103 East US Highway 36 Suite 163 Avon, Indiana 46123 USA ========================================================== Subscription information: You can enter an email address to receive the gram by using the link below. Use this to change your address (add the new one), add a friend or enemy. http://www.papermoneyworld.net/WebMailList/Default.asp =================================================== HOT CONTACT LIST - DEALER & RESOURCE LIST Below is the BNR Press Hot Contact List. This list serves several functions. Obviously it is an outreach by the dealers listed for your business. Most of them buy and sell MPC. Others organize shows or publish periodicals, or furnish information dedicated to this field. They have supported the new Comprehensive Catalog of Military Payment Certificates with their advertising. They deserve your support and patronage! Name phone fax / cell email Allens (614) 882-3937 (614) 882-0662 info@allens.com American Coins & Collectibles (800) 865-3562 American Numismatic Ass'n(800) 367-9723 ana@money.org Guy Araby(562) 945-7891(310) 508-0018 guyaraby@earthlink.net Bob Baker(713) 864-3122 Ken Barr (408) 272-3247 ken@kenbarr.com Fred Bart (810) 979-3400 Dick Balbaton(508) 699-2266 (508) 643-1154 RBalbaton@aol.com Keith and Suzanne Bauman (248) 262-1514 tnaksbauman@earthlink.net Joe Bissell (602) 440-0442 (602) 494-9103 BNR Press(419) 732-6683 (419) 732-6683 fredschwan@yahoo.com Remy Bourne(800) 789-7070 (763) 789-4747 Ed Carne (614) 882-3937 (614) 882-0662 info@allens.com Champion Stamp (212)489-8130 (212) 581-8130 Cookie Jar Collectibles (301) 604-9225 cjcpi@comcast.net Guido Crapanzano [39] 2-8056228 [39] 2-4459856 Currency Dealer Newsletter (310) 515-7369 David F. Cieniewicz(205)852-7015 CGC (602) 493-4758 (602) 494-9103 sales@gradedcurrency.com Mike Cummings (863)603-9899 (863) 603-9880 mpccoin@hotmail.com Cygnet Charters(419) 734-2422 Ray Czahor (301) 604-9225 cjcpi@comcast.net Doric Coins & Currency (508) 699-2266 (508) 643-1154 FUN(407) 321-8747 Philip M. Goldstein (845) 254-MPC1 [6721] iwantmympc@aol.com or MPC Website Great Lakes Bank Note Company(419) 732-6683 IBNS joeboling@aol.com Essie Kashani(909) 627-3996 (909) 627-2776 kashani10@aol.com Lowel Horwdel (765) 583-2748 (765) 583-4584 horwdel@inshightbb.com Lyn Knight(800) 243-5211 Krause Publications (715) 445-2214 (715) 445-4087 bnr@krause.com Harold Kroll(251) 649-5134 HARBONS@aol.com Leo May (305) 271-8391(305) 720-0659 LeoMayEnt@aol.com or Wide World of Banknotes Ian Marshall(416) 445-0286 (416) 445-0286 iam@total.net Memphis Coin Club (901) 757-2515 MPCGram (419) 732-6683 MPCGram@yahoo.com Bob Reed(504) 361-5684 bobreed@rrcoins.net Fred Schwan (419) 732-6683 (419) 732-6683 FredSchwan@yahoo.com David Seelye(585) 594-1987 (585) 594-2311 coinman@rochester.rr.com Richie Self (318) 868-9077 R. M. Smythe(800) 622-1880 (212) 908-4047 www.smytheonline.com Mel Steinberg & Son(415) 453-9750 (415) 457-4432 melsteinberg@mindspring.com Military Trader(800) 334-7165 Scott Winslow Associates (603)472-7040 (603) 472-8773 scott@scottwinslow.com George Warner(307) 672-3700 Pam West [44] 0208 641 3224[44] 0208 641 3224 pamwestbritnotes@compuserve.com =================================================== POST / BASE EXCHANGE(PX/BX/NEX) Dump your dupes! Your classified advertisement for items for sale, purchase or trade will be run here for free. Send your ads to the gram. This service is for everyone, most humble dealer or most advanced collector. The point is to make the gram more interesting. In all cases confirm your order via email first. FOR SALE: MPC Series 691 and 701, full sets of second printings each (no fractionals of course) $7050. Confirm iam@total.net. Replica MPC set of 107 notes. Advertised in the numismatic press for $25.00 available to any gramster for $20.00 (plus $1.00 postage) with $5.00 per set being donated to the ANA Summer Seminar Military Money Scholarship fund. Also available a set of series 681 replica notes (8 notes) for $2.00 (plus $0.60 postage up to 5 sets) per set with 25% per set being donated to the scholarship fund. Email your order to dfreyser@cs.com and mention you saw it in the gram to ensure donation to the scholarship fund. WANTED SECTION: Collectors may submit lists of items wanted for their collections for listing here. Dealers and collectors who have these items, are then encouraged to list them for sale in the above section as a reply. Wanted listings will run for a period of 1 month. WANTED - Fancy Series 641 fractional notes – any condition. (5/18) WANTED - Philippine Guerrila Money (5/26) Wanted: War and other bonds issued by the US government, will purchase or trade. =================================================== MPC CATALOG CORRECTIONS & ENHANCEMENTS Page 18, Bottom - Users of Military Payment Certificates Check marks were omitted from production copies of books. Please check off the following: Australia: 641, 661, 681, 692 Canada:461 through and including 591 Korea: 641, 661, 681, 692 New Zealand:641, 661, 681, 692 Thailand: 641, 661, 681, 692 United States: All (date listed: 02 APRIL 2002) Page 201, Bottom Right - Very last sentence on this page Two serial numbers listed for the second printing of Series 472 .50 cent notes. The first serial number listed is obviously in error as a nine digit number: C040351392C Correct Serial Number is: C04035139C D Freyser (date listed 10 April 2002) Page 207, #833/4 - Series 481 .25 4th Printing (table listing serial number breakdowns) line 5 Start Number is incorrect. It appears as: (start) D14784001D(end) D14784000D Correct start number should be: D09408001D PK6 (date listed: 03 APRIL 2002) Page 214, #855/r2 - Series 541 $1 Replacements, Ending serial number is incorrect Correct number is F1112000 (date listed: 02 APRIL 2002) Page 220, #884/2r - Series 641 .50 Replacements On page 284, it is broken down into 2 printings. That's correct, BUT, on page 220 he lists only (1) printing reported. It should "list" both first and second printings. Guy Araby (date listed 04 APRIL 2002) Page 287, Series 661 Series Summary, 25 cent note: the "list" shows "#CU as 10(7) . It should read, 8(7). As only 8 are known in CU. Just recount P.289. Guy Araby (date listed 08 APRIL 2002) Page 398, Series #541 $10 on "UNC." price is $2500, on P.214 the UNC. price is $3500. Also the rest of the prices don't match all the way to "VG" on this issue. They should be the same price. Guy Araby (date listed 08 APRIL 2002) =================================================== MPC Gram Staff: Publisher: Fred Schwan - MPCGram@yahoo.com Editor: Philip M. Goldstein - IWANTMYMPC@aol.com Subscription Manager:Doug Bell - doug@papermoneyworld.net Tuesday Columnist : Joe Boling - JoeBoling@aol.com Thurski Columnist: Larry "Ski" Smulczenski - skifla@prodigy.net Friday Columnist:Fred Schwan - MPCGram@yahoo.com Critic: Harold Kroll - HARBONS@aol.com Scholarship Coordinator: Marcus Turner - maturner@indy.rr.com Index & Back Issue Manager:vacant Webmaster & Technical Advisors:Doug Bell "Wiz" - doug@papermoneyworld.net Russ Walsh - russ.walsh@gte.net Fact Checker: Warner Talso - Calendar Coordinator: John & Nancy Wilson - The Boss: Judy Schwan ===== MPC Gram is published by BNR Press and papermoneyworld.com as a free service to the community of military money collectors. Your suggestions, criticisms, complaints, editorial contributions, letters, and even praise are very welcome. The entire contents including linked illustrations are copyright protected by the publishers. In the case of contributors, the copyright is protected on behalf of the creators. Please send all correspondence regarding the gram to MPCgram@yahoo.com. Thank you very much for your participation. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/