From: "MPCgram" To: Subject: MPCGram 880 (controversy continues) Date: Monday, March 24, 2003 7:32 AM =========================================== MPC GRAM =========================================== Covering the entire World of Military Numismatics Series 004 - Number 880 Monday March 24, 2003 Controversy Swirls about 691/701s The brief story in Gram 779 and the April Bank Note Reporter has generated emotional responses from many collectors. The positions are extremely varied. The remainder of this Gram is dedicated to this topic. Additional comments will be very welcome. =========================================== Editorial =========================================== Because of the excitement about series 691 and 701, I thought that I should check to see what we said about the destruction of these in the Comprehensive Catalog of Military Payment Certificates. I found the subject addressed in two places. Marcus Turner discusses these issues in his Adventures in Collecting article on pages 146-148. His very last phrase of the article is telling: ?the remaining notes are supposedly intact. The other place where the status of remaining stocks is mentioned is in the catalog section. There the comments are sparse. We state that the first printings were destroyed after they were determined to be unfit. For the second printing of 691 we say that the balance may have been destroyed. For series 701 we say that the first printing was destroyed after being determined to be unfit. I guess that this is about as accurate and complete as we could have written in 2001. Since then we have learned some other things. We knew that some significant quantity remained because a collector reported in the Gram seeing the crates moved from Fort Harrison. Fred =========================================== MAIL CALL =========================================== Mister Editor, A little discussion on the destruction of the 691 & 701 series of MPC. I, for one don't own a set or even a single note from either of these un-issued series. But being a ragpicker, I certainly would like to. As with other government operations, nothing you or any one else has to say about it, they ( Government) are going to do what ever makes the least amount of sense. Case in point, as I am sure you are aware, a few years ago, our government destroyed several million of the series 1966 and 1966 A $ 100.00 notes. They didn't ask me if this was OK and went against my wishes, and shredded every one of them. Of course, you can still find one if you want, at a some what inflated price. If the Fed would have just opened the vaults and sold these notes to the collecting public at only a few dollars above face value, they could have made a very hefty profit. But NO!!! That would make to much sense. SSDD, Same Situation, Different Day. Lord help us. Jack H. Dear Editor, The gram is a very unique and serving tool that assists all of us. I am beside myself as I read the attacks and grumbles of the readers of this tool that benefits us all. This type of insult must get discouraging? I my self am in the market right now for several of the notes that are possibly being destroyed. But even as I have been shopping around not one person has pressured me to buy or to my knowledge concealed anything to the contrary? But as I read this issue of the gram I cant help but to consider the countless thankless hours that you and your support staff have put in to keeping us all in the loop, let alone all that you have done for my favorite pastime(MPC) saving me and others countless hours of study and agonizing research. Please don't allow this barrage of ignorance to discourage you from all that you have done and are doing. We are all human and we all have our own issues to deal with and in time will make mistakes. Did anyone forget that this publication is FREE! when you start paying for your gram you have the right to dictate what's in it by not buying it or voicing opinions that matter! But when a group of people make oversight to certain issues for what ever reason it is not our job to be the captains of the MPC world and make criticism of their thankless efforts! I cannot imagine the sacrifices that all of you have made of time and money. Any information that you have passed on through the greatness of our gram is reason for thankful opinions not insults. I am sorry that these weak insults have come your way. I commend all of you that VOLUNTEER your time to keep us all informed if and when possible. For those that feel that its their job to insult you, I say let them start making a gram and see the sacrifices of time and resources that it must take to put this FREE informational tool that we all enjoy. So my hats off to all of you and your staff of volunteers and thank you very much for all and any efforts that you guys poor into this very unique and successful newsletter that we call our Gram I am a Gramster and proud. Kevin Dear Kevin, I will address the financial issues of a free Gram soon. Thank you for bringing up this mater. Editor Hello Gramsters! [two letters combined] Re: 691 /701 notes..... I was led to believe that these sets and singles were to be destroyed! I have spent several thousand dollars on replacements as well as first printing and second printing sets, and extras! IF these were released it would be a "stab in the back" to all the MPC collectors who bought them in good faith!!! Based on the fact that there destruction was forthcoming. I can only see one possible way they could be released as a "worst case scenario," that would be to PUNCH CANCEL them!!!!! But I still am against this! Look how worthless the British military certificates became! Nobody even looks at those in junk boxes! Also, I just bought a "replacement" 691 $1, for quite a bit last week!! I feel betrayed not being informed that "anyone" would stop destruction, let alone not "warn" our community especially at the "Fest" even though I wasn't there. This MPC collecting community is "too small" Tens of thousands of dollars would be lost by this move to make "who" so happy!!! The government, or "Fred's information survey?" He will find the information if it's that important! The 63,000,000 notes, where are the collectors?? Bad move and I think they should BE DESTROYED or at least destroyed with some being CANCELED and perhaps sold, this would prevent total financial destruction of our fellow MPC collectors who bought sets and singles (uncanceled!)! Where is your loyalty??? Was there a Gram # 878?? If so could you please resend it? If not did it contain info on news about the #691 /701 destruction story??? Last received Gram #877. I have 20K invested in what was suppose to be "donated To the S.O.S. $2000 per set! (50 only?) (paid much more!!!)?? This is/WAS the ONLY reason ANYONE would gamble and BUY such sets!!!! How can you say, "lets 'NOT' destroy" them NOW and make them totally WORTHLESS!!! Are you crazy????? And without a vote from the MPC community as to how and why if any reason they should be prevented from destruction!!! What about selling a handful of canceled sets at a modest price for the masses!! THIS would still allow the other 62.9 MILLION to be destroyed! There is no reason to save that MANY!!!........ Gone too far Fred!!!!! Your loving follower.. Guy M. Araby 40 years a collector and dealer! Dear Editor, I don't want to overstate it, but I am very disappointed in your failure to share the information about Series 691/701 with the rest of us in a timely manner. I have been researching this very issue for over a year, and if I had found out any of this information, I certainly would have shared it with my fellow Gramsters. I do have several letters and memoranda related to this subject from the late 1990's, which I will send to you for a postmortem. David Klinger Dear Editor, I agree with your position regarding the description of these notes. As far as what you knew and when you knew it, I accept your explanation regarding your decision to keep it to yourself for a while. Rumors are too difficult to stop when the information to squelch them is incomplete. Easier to stop a rumor before it starts than after, anyway... Having said that, I do agree that those who have expended considerable sums for the privilege of being the first to own an item will yelp a lot when suddenly many more of that item become available. However, it should be apparent that any 'scarcity' of these items had to be known to be artificial. When I first heard of the existence of these notes, I was led to believe that the notes then available were ALL that existed, that the remainder had ALREADY been destroyed. I do not accuse the initial distributors of these items of evil intent for I believe they thought this initial information was correct. As stated by a US General today regarding the Iraqi Liberation, "The first report is usually wrong." Your ideas regarding their eventual distribution are in line with my own thoughts. I remember when bags of 1904-O dollars were released in the 1960's. The holders of the few of these that had been distributed in the years between 1904 and the early '60's were outraged; however, has the Silver Dollar market crumbled?? No, it hasn't. Why should one want to collect something impossible to obtain? There has to be a sufficient supply of a commodity so that the collector will feel able to obtain an item or else the interest evaporates. A case in point are the Official Bicentennial medals in precious metals, too few for interest in things as significant as the commem coins for the Pan Pacific Expo of 1915. The mintages are similar be 'way less "valuable"... Any way, jusy my $0.02 worth. Oh, BTW, wha' hoppen to #878?? Jay in Garrison, TX Dear Editor, If you (or anyone) were able to stop the destruction, bravo. I think that it is a great and important development. Phil I sent in a letter verifying that I had seen a report on television concerning the destruction? Why was that report never published or at least discussed? I can always use my set as toilet paper. Thanks for nothin Fred Tim Dear Tim, Thanks for writing (both times). I am sorry that I let you down. After receiving your first letter (and some others), I wanted to research the item by seeing the news item (and other things too), but still have not gotten that done. Fred I have read the comments regarding the destruction Series 691 and 701 MPC. I have to agree with you. All collectors know that hoards are a part of the business. I have little sympathy for those who may have purchased these notes at high prices especially when most knew the government was still holding millions of the notes. A true collector should be upset about the destruction of any collectible. Those who decry the halting of the destruction of the government?s stock of notes are merely lashing out because their own commercial expectations may not be realized. Their attitude is simply ?I paid a lot of money for mine and I?m going to make sure everyone else does, too.? Anyone who maintains such sentiments has lost touch completely with what it means to be a collector. At the same time, I do not believe that the collector market should have any bearing on whether the government destroys the notes, continues to store them, or makes them available to the public; although I recognize that without the collectors market, the last option would be a moot point. Dear Editor, I am not in tune with the powers that be to know who knew what when on this issue [691/701]; however, I think you are taking a lot of undeserved heat. If things are as you described them and there were many others who knew of this matter, they were just as derelict in not bringing it to light. Those who criticize your not having raised the issue are likely the same people who are critical of your position regarding the notes? destruction. I believe they remained silent to ensure the notes destruction by preventing the general collecting community from not pressuring the government to do otherwise. If the debate is merely one of destruction vs. preservation, they are certainly entitled to their opinion as you and I are to ours. I would trust that both sides of this debate would see it for the disagreement in philosophy that it is and nothing more. Those that criticize your silence are misguided since bringing the issue to public attention would likely have produced the same result at an earlier time. I suspect their motivation for the public criticism of you is to point fingers and make sure that the world knows who may be responsible for diminishing the value of their collections in order to pressure you to change your position. It will be a great loss to the collecting community as a whole for you to do so. Please run this letter in its entirety. Jim Downey =========================================== CALENDAR OF EVENTS =========================================== Masstricht April 4-6, Valkenburg, The Netherlands, contact Jos Eijsermans, Box 3240, NL 5930 Tegelen Netherlands May 30 ? June 1 POW Conference II, Coe College, Cedar Rapids, IA Registration fees: $150 for general registration; $200 after 1 May 2003. (A day fee of $50 per full day, $25 per half day will be accepted at the time of registration as space allows for walk-in registrants to join pre-regs.) $100 for presenters, uni/college students, senior citizens, veterans of any age, overseas participants. (Registrations must be received by 1 May to qualify.)(Presenters coming for one day may attend half of that day free; if they'd like to attend the entire day they will be asked for a $25 contribution to help defray conference costs. [Basically, all presenters and panelists are being given $50 credit.]) $50 for TRACES donors/non-working TRACES board members. $50 for Journalists may attend the exhibit opening, 1-5 Saturday afternoon at the Johnson County History Center in Iowa City/Iowa, for free; those wishing to attend the rest of the conference in order to write articles/tape reports may do so at $25 per day. The exhibit itself is free and open to the public. We are very pleased to have, per plan, some half dozen German POWs or their families with us for the exhibit and conference; as much as we would like to waive the conference registration fee, we must ask that they make a one-time $50 contribution to help defray the unavoidable costs of making this conference a reality. Berlin Study Tour participants may attend for free. Please (!) pass this invitation to anyone you think might be interested in either presenting or attending. For more information about TRACES visit www.TRACES.org. Memphis International Paper Money Show: 13-15 June, Cook Convention Center, 255 N. Main St., Memphis TN 38103-1623 Military Numismatics Summer Seminar Session I dates are Saturday, June 28, to Friday, July 4; session II, Saturday, July 5 to Friday, July 11, 2003 Link for more and general information: http://www.money.org/sumsem2003.html Link to photos from Seminar II http://www.money.org/summer2002images5.html application for military money scholarship http://www.papermoneyworld.net/news/MilitaryNumismatists Scholarship Fund 2003.pdf PCDA National and World Paper Money Convention. November 19-23, 2003. St. Louis Hilton Airport Hotel, 10330 Natural Bridge Road, St. Louis, MO 63134. 2004 MPCFest V, reservations now being accepted. Reservations entered in order received: (Feb-Mar 2004): Roger Urce#, John Cheney#, David Seelye, Phil Goldstein, Harold Kroll, Gail Baker#, Leo May$$$, Kevin Neidy, Cuneyd Tolek, Warner Talso, Cameron Bueschel, Wendell Wolka, John V. Craig#, Fred Schwan. # new Fester, $ paid. $$ paid single occupancy. Running totals: total 13, new festers 4. Show n tell contact Gail Baker (education@money.org) Arrival and departure coordination: Mark Watson MCW@qnet.com Auction items coordinate: Larry Smulczenski skifla@prodigy.net, Phil Goldstein IWANTMYMPC@aol.com Exhibits contact joeboling@aol.com ======================================== 2003 scholarship fund Donations of cash and numismatic material will be gladly accepted. Generally the numismatic material is auctioned at MPCFest, but might be sold via ebay or other places. Your scholarship donations help the hobby by sending qualified individuals to the ANA summer seminar military money class. Except for unavoidable charges like ebay fees, 100% of your donation goes to scholarships. 2003 Scholarship Donors Ed Hoffman RA Medina Dick Freyser Larry Smulczenski David Seelye Howard Daniel Steve Feller Warner Talso Pam West Mr. 691 Leo May John & Nancy Wilson Max Spiegel Gail Baker Chris Connell Bill Haines Joel Shafer Mikhail (Misha) Istomin Gary Hicks Robert Drew Tom Warburton Larry Lee Fred Schwan Mark Watson Harold Kroll Ian Marshall Marcus Turner Neil Shafer Keith & Sue Bauman Contact me at: "Marcus Turner" mailto:maturner@indy.rr.com Checks should be made out to the "Military Numismatists Scholarship." or Marcus Turner 8103 East US Highway 36 Suite 163 Avon, Indiana 46123 USA IMPORTANT SCHOLARSHIP INFORMATION The last information given in the gram did not include the official release of application/donation information. This information can be found at the link below. We encourage everyone to print copies of this information and distribute it to those who might be interested. Further you are encouraged to e-mail the pdf document to anyone you see fit. Thank you http://www.papermoneyworld.net/news/Military Numismatists Scholarship Fund 2003.pdf Marcus Turner Scholarships from the ANA: See the following location for an application for financial aid to the summer seminar: http://www.money.org/sumsemfin.html =========================================== MPC ANA Museum Project =========================================== ANA collection of MPC: Thanks to donations from Douglas Bell, Dick Fryser, Ed Beaman, David Seelye, Philip Goldstean, Michael Cummings, Ray Czahor, David Pitchford and Mr 691the ANA MPC collection is current as follows: Series 100 - [50 sen], [1Y, 5Y, 10Y, 20Y all A underprint] Series 461 - 5, [10] cents, [$1] Series 471 - [5, 10, 25, 50 cents, $10] Series 472 - [5, 10 cents], [$1, $10] Series 481 - 5 cents, [10, 25 cents], 50 cents, $1, [$5] $10 Series 521 - 5, 10, 25, 50 cents, [$10] Series 541 - 5, 10, 25 cents Series 591 - [5, 10, 25, 50 cents, $1] Series 611 - [5, 10, 25 cents, $1] Series 641 - 5, 10, 25, 50 cents, $1, $5, $10 Series 651 - [$1] Series 661 - [10, 25, 50c], [$5], [$1, $5] $10 Series 681 - 5, 10, 25, 50 cents, $1, [$5], [$20] Series 691 - [$1, $5, $10, $20] Series 692 - 5, 10, 25, 50 cents, $1 Series 701 - [$1, $5, $10, $20] [50c etc.] = notes donated by Gramsters --Chris Connell =========================================== RESEARCH =========================================== New modification to the database you can now retrieve your password if you have forgotten at the main logon screen. Keep in mind syntax is important. The mpc database has changed its name it now going to be refered as, WW II P a p e r M o n e y D a t a B a s e This is just a hint of things to come If you are having truble loging on please inform doug bell At doug@papermoneyworld.net Papermoneyworld maintains an innovative interactive data base of all military payment certificates. Everyone is invited to enter notes in their possession or that they have observed. Visit the site at: http://www.papermoneyworld.net/user/default.asp this project is financially supported by David Seelye http://www.thempcman.net/, mailto:coinman@rochester.rr.com =========================================== Subscription information: =========================================== You can enter an email address to receive the gram by using the link below. Use this to change your address (add the new one), add a friend or enemy. http://www.papermoneyworld.net/WebMailList/Default.asp ========================================= HOT CONTACT LIST - DEALER & RESOURCE LIST Below is the BNR Press Hot Contact List. This list serves several functions. Obviously it is an outreach by the dealers listed for your business. Most of them buy and sell MPC. Others organize shows or publish periodicals, or furnish information dedicated to this field. They have supported the new Comprehensive Catalog of Military Payment Certificates with their advertising. They deserve your support and patronage! Name phone fax / cell email Allens (614) 882-3937 (614) 882-0662 info@allens.com American Coins & Collectibles (800) 865-3562 American Numismatic Ass'n(800) 367-9723 ana@money.org Guy Araby(562) 945-7891(310) 508-0018 guyaraby@earthlink.net Bob Baker(713) 864-3122 Ken Barr (408) 272-3247 ken@kenbarr.com Fred Bart (810) 979-3400 Dick Balbaton(508) 699-2266 (508) 643-1154 RBalbaton@aol.com Keith and Suzanne Bauman (248) 647 8938 tnaksbauman@earthlink.net Joe Bissell (602) 440-0442 (602) 494-9103 BNR Press(419) 732-6683 (419) 732-6683 fredschwan@yahoo.com Remy Bourne(800) 789-7070 (763) 789-4747 Ed Carne (614) 882-3937 (614) 882-0662 info@allens.com Champion Stamp (212)489-8130 (212) 581-8130 Cookie Jar Collectibles (301) 604-9225 cjcpi@comcast.net Guido Crapanzano [39] 2-8056228 [39] 2-4459856 Currency Dealer Newsletter (310) 515-7369 David F. Cieniewicz(205)852-7015 CGC (602) 493-4758 (602) 494-9103 sales@gradedcurrency.com Mike Cummings (863)603-9899 (863) 603-9880 mpccoin@hotmail.com Cygnet Charters(419) 734-2422 Ray Czahor (301) 604-9225 cjcpi@comcast.net Doric Coins & Currency (508) 699-2266 (508) 643-1154 FUN(407) 321-8747 Philip M. Goldstein : (845) 586-4672 iwantmympc@aol.com Great Lakes Bank Note Company(419) 732-6683 IBNS joeboling@aol.com Essie Kashani(909) 627-3996 (909) 627-2776 kashani10@aol.com Lowel Horwdel (765) 583-2748 (765) 583-4584 horwdel@inshightbb.com Lyn Knight(800) 243-5211 Krause Publications (715) 445-2214 (715) 445-4087 bnr@krause.com Harold Kroll(251) 649-5134 HARBONS@aol.com Leo May (305) 271-8391(305) 720-0695 LeoMayEnt@aol.com or Wide World of Banknotes Ian Marshall(416) 445-0286 (416) 445-0286 iam@total.net Memphis Coin Club (901) 757-2515 MPCGram (419) 732-6683 MPCGram@yahoo.com Pomexport Ltd. 1-201-641-6641 / Fax: 1-201-641-1700 E-Mail: Info@pomexport.com // website: http://www.Pomexport.com Bob Reed(504) 361-5684 bobreed@rrcoins.net Fred Schwan (419) 732-6683 (419) 732-6683 FredSchwan@yahoo.com David Seelye(585) 594-1987 (585) 594-2311 coinman@rochester.rr.com Richie Self (318) 868-9077 R. M. Smythe(800) 622-1880 (212) 908-4047 www.smytheonline.com Mel Steinberg & Son(415) 453-9750 (415) 457-4432 melsteinberg@mindspring.com Military Trader(800) 334-7165 Scott Winslow Associates (603)472-7040 (603) 472-8773 scott@scottwinslow.com George Warner(307) 672-3700 Pam West [44] 0208 641 3224[44] 0208 641 3224 pamwestbritnotes@compuserve.com ======================================= POST / BASE EXCHANGE(PX/BX/NEX) Dump your dupes! Your classified advertisement for items for sale, purchase or trade will be run here for free. Send your ads to the gram. This service is for everyone, most humble dealer or most advanced collector. The point is to make the gram more interesting. In all cases confirm your order via email first. 611 $5.00................................$1500.00 Postpaid (GEM) 681 $10.00..............................$ 375.00 Postpaid (CH UNC) USA ADDRESS: Michael L. Cummings 2270 Griffin Road #433 Lakeland, FL 33810-5565 FAX: 863-815-4522 JAPAN ADDRESS: Michael L. Cummings Okachimachi Green Heights #603 Taito-ku Ueno 6-1-6 Tokyo, JAPAN 110-0005 TEL: 090-7408-3181 EMAIL: mpccoin@hotmail.com (PAYPAL ACCOUNT) EMAIL2: mpccoin@cameo.plala.or.jp WANTED SECTION: Collectors may submit lists of items wanted for their collections for listing here. Dealers and collectors who have these items, are then encouraged to list them for sale in the above section as a reply. Wanted listings will run for a period of 1 month. WANTED Rendezvous with Destiny MFC Series 022 souvenir notes. Paying up to five times face value. Put your for sale notice in the Gram. =========================================== MPC Gram Staff: Publisher: Fred Schwan - MPCGram@yahoo.com Editor: Philip M. Goldstein - IWANTMYMPC@aol.com Subscription Manager:Doug Bell - doug@papermoneyworld.net Tuesday Columnist : Joe Boling - JoeBoling@aol.com Thurski Columnist: Larry "Ski" Smulczenski - skifla@prodigy.net Friday Columnist:Fred Schwan - MPCGram@yahoo.com Critic: Harold Kroll - HARBONS@aol.com Scholarship Coordinator: Marcus Turner - maturner@indy.rr.com Index & Back Issue Manager:vacant Webmaster & Technical Advisors:Doug Bell "Wiz" - doug@papermoneyworld.net Russ Walsh - russ.walsh@gte.net Fact Checker: Warner Talso - Calendar Coordinator: John & Nancy Wilson - The Boss: Judy Schwan ===== MPC Gram is published by BNR Press and papermoneyworld.com as a free service to the community of military money collectors. Your suggestions, criticisms, complaints, editorial contributions, letters, and even praise are very welcome. The entire contents including linked illustrations are copyright protected by the publishers. In the case of contributors, the copyright is protected on behalf of the creators. Please send all correspondence regarding the gram to MPCgram@yahoo.com. Thank you very much for your participation. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com